Expressions

of

Doubt

Or / Maybe as / is Demolition

Studio visit w/ Lukas Eigler Harding on 2017.04.28 @ 9:00am (EST)

Lukas: The or / maybe site was closed when I tried to look at it this morning, so I looked at it briefly a couple days ago when the studio hours were open, but then…

Rahul: Yah I’m sorry about that, I was going to leave it open overnight, but I also didn’t want you to feel pressure to look at everything.

Lukas: I think this was good, I found, what’s your friends name, it starts with a ‘B’

Rahul: Besan?

Lukas: Bailey

Rahul: Oh ya ya ya

Lukas: So I found a couple of his articles, and just tried to build up a little bit of a context for the work. Like on the Baltimore Art site. He’s got that nice essay: “Aesthetics of the Alt-Right”

Rahul: Oh, that was actually Vijay, the guy that I did the Inspire Magazine project with.

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The Aesthetics of the Alt-Right

Lukas: Ok, it was nice, I had recently gone to a lecture, which started where that article had concluded, about using imagery on the left as something that becomes more widely dispersed, and is more aggressive or militaristic. I think it was: using meme’s as political warfare.

Rahul: Do you remember who it was?

Lukas: Yah, I think his name is Daniel Kasic? Here one sec. Daniel Keller was the name. He used Roko's Basilisk, which is this idea that suggests that a possible super powerful AI of the future would be revengeful on anyone that knew of its development and didn’t help it. So merely knowing about Roko's Basilisk implicates you in being responsible to devoting your entire life to help build it. So by mentioning it or spreading the knowledge of it you immediately begin to implicate other people so, apologies.

Rahul: (Laughs)

Lukas: But essentially Keller equated it to memes or images, so as soon as you mention or share an ISIS video for example, people immediately want to look it up. So there is this famous image online, of Barbra Streisand’s mansion online, that was accusing her, I guess her mansion was on a coastline and causing erosion, and some scientist said that this mansion wass becoming a detriment to the environment, and posted it on his website. She tried to get her lawyers to remove the image, but as soon as that was publicized, the image went from being shared 5 times to several thousand. So attempting to suppress something, spreads the knowledge of that thing.

Rahul: And is this something that is, specific to the internet within the context of the talk?

Lukas: It was mostly within the internet. For him it was these alt-right ideas that disseminated through memes. I guess, I’m thinking like as soon as books are made illegal by fascist regimes, like Vatcher in the Rye. Which, from what I remember, wasn’t even allowed in the US for sometime, as soon as that’s the case everyone wants to read it.

Rahul: I’ll take a look, that would be interesting. I think from the jump, the only thing I would be suspicious about is… well I feel like our understanding of censorship is very convoluted now, like search algorithms are a very strange way to interface with information, and possibly a form of censorship? Even the other day, I was searching online for something physical, and I got a bunch of stack overflow forums.

Lukas: (Laughs) That’s very telling. Yah that wasn’t something that was covered at all in the talk, but I think, this is something we briefly covered when we were in Dubai. The potential censorship of search algorithms, facebook algorithms, etc. And I think that brings in a whole different agent into this “Roko's Basilisk” Kellers talk dealt with peer to peer sharing. But when you have organization to peer it changes the whole game.

Rahul: Yah, definitely…

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The Basilisk - Daniel Keller

So I guess to get into the whole studio visit. Right now the site has two sections that cover an ongoing project, and then a series of projects/commisioned (freelance) work that I’ve done under this studio container. The way, Lily and I’s conversation happened last week, we started by talking about the main project that I’m working on right now, and I can show you some more work from that that’s not on the site just yet. And then the later half of the conversation, we talked about the site itself, because I think there is this meta-idea of “What does a digital studio look like?” I think one of the primary interests I’ve had underneath most of the work that I’ve been doing has been to try and store / retain large amounts of information in systems that are easy to navigate.

Lukas: So graphic design essentially.

Rahul: (Laughs) yah, exactly. So maybe that’s something we could get into towards the end of the conversation.

Lukas: So how do you want to start this?

Rahul: I’ll share my screen so you can see what I’m looking at, so this first project I’ve been doing since I got back from Dubai, I’ve been wanting to do a lecture series, based around this Buckmister Fuller video series called “Everything I Know” which I think in total spans 24hours. It’s him speaking about a lot of the ideas that have been contained within his work, ranging from the social sciences to mathematics, etc. I liked the idea of keeping that as a frame, and even the title. Like, how can I articulate everything I know at this point in time. And then underneath that there’s this interest in power as it manifests itself in the relationship between the author and audience, or even the hierarchies generated between content and consumers. Because I think one of the things I’ve noticed since I’ve been working primarily on the internet is that there’s a flattening, but a false flattening of power, and you see those especially on twitter or youtube, where there is false equality around production. And so this is a first step in examining what it might look like to re-establish the power of content in whatever micro-environment i’m producing the work in. So these are sketches for what the video is going to look like. And last night, I mocked up what the set might look like. So there is a mirror, a looping video of a top levitating and then the seating area where I would sit. And then on top of the entire screen, like in this sketch there would be subtitles running on the top and bottom of the screen. As far as content goes, I’ve been working on this piece which is initial thoughts on the difference between interfacing with screens vs. physical objects. And i think one of the nice things about the internet is that it has pushed us into a space of truly meditative isolation. I think our browsing experience informs a specific or unique context that we understand the world thorough. And even though there is a certain streamlining, if we say, both look at reddit, hacker news (or any other content aggregator), chances are we are going to be looking at the same content, however the minute you become even a little adept at navigating the internet you find these niches, and you are looking at content that is very specific to you.

Lukas: Or specific to a community.

Screen shot 2017 05 27 at 6.01.39 pm

Rahul: Yah, exactly, and so I like this idea of socialization having to occur through this convoluted process of hiding or revealing these niche instances of ones exploration on the internet, because that’s one of the things i think is really important: like, what is the information you are interested in attaining.

Lukas: So in terms of content you see it, maybe I didn’t understand it fully, but the text and video, you would be speaking in response to the video in the mirror. Would you be looking at particular niches? Or, just kind of setting an example of what a niche like that might feel like?

Rahul: It would probably be an articulation of the feeling, because as far as the content goes, I’m interested in the individual implications of that, because I think part of the purpose of or-maybe being a self-reflexive practice is to allow for more independent reflection, perhaps closer to what you might find in short fiction. Like I just listened to this short story by Italo Calvino.

Lukas: What’s it called?

Rahul: Love far from home. He wrote it when he was 22, but it wasn’t published until after he passed. It was really interesting, because I think it achieves, this revelation of character, but simultaneously this deep and nuanced exploration of the medium through which this revelation is presented. Which I think provides benefit to showing the authors concept but also further benefits the medium itself. One of the ways I described it to Lily last time we talked. I want this piece to be both an examination of and example.

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Love Far from Home - Italo Calvino, read by Salman Rushdie

Lukas: I think that’s the power of video, or perhaps of the choosing of a medium. It’s very important in framing what you are saying. Yah, I wonder if there is a sense in which, I mean I’m assuming this video will be presented online. And I think maybe the mirrored reflection has sometime to do with that. But I wonder, and this is obviously for you to decide, whether it can be taken a step forward with something like a live stream. Maybe talky or something like that. You have platforms like instagram or snapchat that have live features which I think are very interesting as these niches that are created, or they are these platforms that make content appear to be equal but in reality one person might have a checkmark by there name, or 3k followers, etc. Despite that you see everything on the same level and if someone invokes the livestream it’s immediately a position of power because it’s live and you can only view it at a specific time when it’s streaming. So it’s not like you can go back to it. It’s something that’s not permanent which I think produces the hierarchy that you are looking for. I think to some degree that’s what you’re doing by having studio hours for the website. Because on the one hand the internet is great for having any information available all the time. But that means that you have to invoke these limits to produce value.

Rahul: Yah it’s funny, that move was both in service of my own practice. I use the studio hours to make sure I’m ready to start work at 10, and then open the studio. But also like you’re saying, it’s a move in service of power or control.

Lukas: There is this TV show here in Germany called Tatort that’s been running for several decades. It started in West Germany and there was an equivalent in East Germany and they combined after the reunification. And it’s kind of crazy, it has a huge following which is rare for tv shows that are like, released each Sunday. So in Germany there are plenty of bars that you can go to on sunday and they will playing the show, regardless of what else is happening that day. And there are people that are like, “I can’t hang out because this show is on” and that’s what I assume is the power that television used to have. Before the internet. The TV dictates ownership of the space it occupies in a similar way. And it’s a convincing of value, because it only being available in this limited amount of time heightens the reason to show devotion, or gives it this myth status. Which is different from what you are saying but they definitely have a similarities in terms of allowing someone to interact with it.

Rahul: I think, I’ve been very concerned with false flags being pointed by people who I would consider to be in our peer group, as far as what inequality and equity within certain fields, questions of power are not being addressed in the most effective way given how change is actually implemented because until we all start having our own independent, expendable income, there’s not going to be a lot we can do to lets say, in graphic design there is a significant lack of minority and specifically female minority voices, but to start a design studio and employ in the way that you want to employ, that’s not something that most of us will have the opportunity to do until maybe, 5-10 years down the road. So right now the anonymity that most of us have provides safety for more experimental and pointed interrogation of what power is and where it exists. I think this is what sparked my interest in making work like this, I felt like everything that I produced existed in this flat non-space which didn’t have any weight, and I especially felt that after I finished propaganda magazine rebrand because it was a very heavy experience for Vijay and I but it ended up being consumed by the internet.

Screen shot 2017 05 27 at 6.04.46 pm

Lukas: So it seems like you are talking both about power and value, and the archival process. And the two exist in service of each other. If you have something of value, that gives you power, and if you have power, you can produce value. So there is kind of this sense that in a flat space, who quantifies value ?, and then, is that something that you can do personally. Going back to these niche spheres, you can have something that has incredible influence on 10 people or a group of a couple 1000 but no one outside of that group knows what it is, which actually brings me to this thing I recently read. Are you familiar with the creative independent?

Rahul: Yah

Lukas: So there was, I don’t remember the interview, but he made this distinction between political art and activism. I’m paraphrasing here but it was essentially that there is no such thing as political art or conversely, everything is political because it depends on a context. But he was saying the difference between activism and art was that activism has a distinct agenda, while art really can’t possibly because it’s framed using both the work and the viewer. And maybe that’s where the design or re-design of an Al-Qaeda magazine kinda blurs those two extremes? In the sense that you can through framing potentially be able to change the value of something which means that you have control. Which i think is a classic pitch of design as a political tool. There was this really cool project that a friend of mine made a couple years ago at university, where he took the notion of re-branding as retargeting of an audience. So instead of, this is an existing audience, he did it for some sort of animal program on BBC, and we are going to replace the liberal audience that loves animals with a wrangle-thon with people capturing animals for zoos which literally re-brands this. The very polite David Attenborough approach to animals to something gritty and lives in the world of monster trucks or ice-road truckers etc… Which I think, it’s rebranding to such an extreme that it becomes content management after a point. Which maybe ties back to the work that you and I do in terms of organizing content and simultaneously choosing how content looks (on the web). Kinda rambling here, i’m trying to figure out how to drive back (laughs) But maybe that’s something to talk about, content management as a type of branding.

Rahul: Yah, I think it’s interesting that you arrived there because one of the things that I was remembering, there was this teacher that I had for drawing, so when she talked about my work she would talk about it within an art context and then always refer to it as world building, which I think is because I rely heavily on the use of symbols, and the whole process is recursive abstraction to end at a “simplest form.” I think during those conversations I would get really frustrated because it felt like I wasn’t building a world. This was my world, it was a very 1 to 1 translation of: this is what I look at, this is what I make. But it just so happened that she didn’t look at the same things and I think re-packaging a large set of images / texts / experiences into there simplest forms so a viewer can be presented with a context, i.e. this is how you are looking at it and this is what you are looking at. That’s still something that i’m struggling with figuring out how to do but I’m hoping it’s something that I can move forward with conceptually within the video, because there’s a lot about the video that’s easy, as far as, how to interact with it. And if there is text it’s most likely going to be read. Like I’ve noticed if you play an english movie with english subtitles, almost every time people will ask to take the subtitles off because they find themselves reading the text even though they can understand the dialogue.

Lukas: Maybe making a version, well I guess it depends on where you put this, but it would be interesting to see if, like youtube has a subtitle feature, I don’t know if you can put in your own subtitles.

Rahul: Well, there is a good chance that the subtitles will be different from the content being spoken.

Lukas: That always fucks me up (laughs). But I really like what you said about world building, and how rather than world building it rather feeling like and exposure to an existing world. I think that that is maybe framed like journalism or visual journalism. Rather than being framed as a piece of fiction granted, fiction specifically sci-fi exposes a world, it would be interesting if it could be framed in a 1-1 way. But I guess you also said you were interested in abstraction… I guess a big question is how accessible should this be? Should it be accessible to only your comrades or colleagues? Or should it be accessible to individuals of a completely different age group and background?

Screen shot 2017 05 27 at 6.06.50 pm

TCI - Katie Alice Greer 

Rahul: Let me try and find something really quickly, I had this question, “What is audience, what is purpose? Accessibility maybe introduced in parallel to the word feasibility i.e. can the piece work” because in most cases intent can be abstracted down to function and I think that’s a good way of understanding the notion of accessibility without it having to be tied to something as concrete, like in the commercial sector, profit, or ease of use. Which is why I think, the or-maybe site, is a little obtuse, it’s a little hard to navigate, but that’s not necessarily a bad thing because it’s just a very specific experience, beneath that it’s a sound piece of web-design, and so it’s a really weird edge you want to do something that respects an independent vision of the reality in which your reality, and introduce people to it without being too confounding. What are the determining behaviors that are necessary for an audience to be able to learn how to act with the work you are making. And this all even outside of content.

Lukas: I wonder if there are any film queues that you could use that people are drawn into or familiar with. Which is something in the history of Net Art has been fought against fiercely, you have Olia Lialina’s “My Boyfriend came back from the war”. Which is a pretty basic story but because of its medium is, if you are not used to navigating the internet, or reading hyperlinks, which I would say most of us aren’t, then it becomes much more difficult to parse even though it’s just: A person comes back from the war, there is conflict, the end. So I think that in terms of scene, or the framing of content, that’s always a fine line to make because at some point the framing of content becomes the content itself. You can abstract it to how you’re filming, or in the structure of this text this is not content but. There is this separation of content that gets blurred. So with structuring the content you could be changing the content significantly without even editing the text.

Rahul: Granted there is still a ways to go, maybe a week or two until I can construct a full rough draft that way, the next person I show it to, I’ll have both the frame and the content, because right now it’s still in the planning stage and what’s been effective about doing the studios at this point is that I get a recorded version of both me speaking about the project, and then somebody else responding. And usually between the two of us, we kind of, cover the entire concept for the piece.

Lukas: I guess in that line, we’ve been talking about content and text, I’d like to hear more about the projections you’re showing. And the logic of what you are placing there, whether it was made by you, whether there is any borrowing. When you first mentioned Buckminster Fuller’s “Everything I Know” as a reference, and had all the sketches, I thought: “Oh cool he’s going to make a playlist of all these lectures and I can see all the lectures he’s been influenced by.” But clearly that’s not the case. The references section is more like footnotes to a video. But yah I’d be interested to hear more.

Rahul: So the mirror has started to appear in work that I was doing second semester senior year, specifically this piece I did, pretty close to the beginning. This is a vinyl installation in my bathroom. I still haven’t pinned down exactly what it is. But there was this piece (Some Uncertainty is Ok), and then this piece (Windows 16). And this idea of reflection in a physical space, and the difference between that and light reflecting in a digital space, can be distilled down to a matrix translation of points and then the pixel representation which is done in 2d. Computed symbol sets has always been part of the work I’ve done, and some sort of algorithmic distillation of idea into script or program. So the mirror just becomes this tool to augment information that I don’t see as truth, maybe. Because it is a representation of reality.

Lukas: But sort of like a translation.

Rahul: Yah exactly. Like the fact that we can never look at ourselves the way others look at us, I think is a very poetic instance of the fallacy of the mirror. And so I think that’s where the mirror comes from. And, idk if you were able to see when I pulled up the comp on the screen share. But, reflected in it is a toy top that’s levitating above a magnet, which I rendered in cinema 4d. I can show you the video if you want.

Screen shot 2017 05 27 at 6.08.16 pm

Lukas: Yah sure. Oh cool.

Rahul: Yah, so one of our roommates got one of those, like 4k hd tv’s. So that’s what this was playing in.

Lukas: So it will only be this video on a loop. So then it becomes much more about just the text. I thought that the content being reflected might be showing other stuff. So this narrows the scope down a lot in a good way.

Rahul: One of the things that I’ve really liked is pieces where the work itself is really simple. Like cases in which you are just left with an image. Or-maybe.info is a really dense archive that probably needs a guide to direct exploration, which I’m ok with. But work I’m producing moving forward. I’d like it to just be a project page that’s literally just an image, it’s self contained. The density of the archive around my work is symptomatic of character not the work itself. And shouldn’t have to be present to validate the work.

Lukas: How long do you think the piece will last?

Rahul: I want to start with something really short, like 2-3 minutes. And either slowly expand by making more videos, or extending the initial piece through the text etc. And then eventually my goal is to use this as a sketch for a physical lecture. And then do some physical performances of the project. Whether it be an explanation of the project, or a screening w/ a q and a. or just a re-construction of the same content.

Lukas: I like that you are thinking of the video as a format that can be expanded. So it almost having not a modular aspect but more like a template. Almost like a stage. There is something like fireside chat-esque about it. Like there is a particular setting in which you are presenting work in a particular way.

Rahul: The other thing that I’ve been thinking about outside the practice is time as it relates to a projects completion. Because the scale when we were working in school, was really accelerated even, professionally I’ve found. I’ve been working the same. It’s the same anxiety, the same pace. But within the studio work that I’ve been doing. Now that everything is extending. This idea of meditation around the work is starting to come back. Especially the older archived version of or-maybe.info. I’ve started re-reading text and images from last year. And so the iterative process, like now that it has space to expand indefinitely, or until I die or whatever. It’s forced me to think about what the products i’m actually putting out are.

Lukas: And to structure a timeline around the work. I guess that’s kind of like a power play with yourself. This is for purely selfish reasons, but I’m always interested in how people organize their time. It would be interested in hearing about the working process. You’ve spoken a little bit about the prototyping process and also producing a format where you can extend it indefinitely if need be. But I’d be interested to hear more about the format you’re building yourself.

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Weekly goals April10th, 2017

Rahul: Well recently, or I guess the last two weeks. I’ve been structuring my work for the studio around these studio visits. So i set goals based on what I want to show whoever is doing the visit with me. And it’s pretty intense because I do GrayBits work from 10-6 and then make dinner, and then 7-11 work on studio work. It’s been really motivating. I pretty much did most of the work for that video last night.

Lukas: Yah, that’s really smart, i’m super interested in that model, not setting yourself deadlines, but setting yourself meeting points which impose their own deadlines. And even if you don’t attain those it takes evaluation of what the conversation should lead to and what you need to get done. You said you had some other projects you were working on, or some other parts?

Rahul: Well, there’s this meta-project, the digital studio. I don’t know if you looked too closely before I pushed the update, but, now there’s a new navigation, I just put in turbo links, and changed the typography on the site.

Lukas: Yah, I think the site is working, the navigation works, I’ve been trying to pinpoint what it is, I find it a lot in the sites you do under Expressions of Doubt. The navigation, it’s not necessarily relying on convention. Like the big yellow button for example on or-maybe.info, it’s not the classic top right. It forces you to engage with the site, instead of just look for a hamburger or something which i think is good. There’s this constant discussion that I find myself having with myself. Web design isn’t particularly old, maybe like a decade. But there have been some standards that have been approached very quickly and that doesn’t necessarily mean that they are the best method, but it usually means they are the quickest and easiest. So as soon as someone’s like, these three lines kind of look like a list, let’s always put them in the top left or right for navigation, then everyone adopts that and it lacks an actual consideration of what the navigation actually is. And especially for website that hosts work that isn’t client oriented or is this expression of your work, it’s the perfect opportunity to subvert that. This push definitely does it a lot better than the previous version. So even if you’re unsure of what steps to take when navigating the website, one click is all it takes to see all your available options or how to get back. I wonder if the structure of the site, whether you: well two things. One I’d like to hear about the content management whether everything is static, or if you’ve separated the content and if not why not. And then the other aspect is site hierarchy, like, to me and probably because I couldn’t access the site this morning I wonder if there is something you could do to have a countdown, that way it’s not just at the bottom, like here are the studio hours, somehow indicating the time that you are allowed to visit the site is limited. Just because I think that’s such a nice feature and puts a sense of urgency around visiting the site and generates interest around what the site might be like to visit offline. I think that dynamic is something that can be worked on.

Rahul: So I guess, to answer the first question, the site is built on GrayMatter so it has a fully functioning backend, it’s just two rails models, one for projects and the other studio visits. And within those there are these content slot sets where you can put in text and images, and the images and text can either be small or large which effects the way the content can be displayed. I can walk you through it if you want.

Lukas: Yah I’d be super interested to see.

Rahul: I have to many passwords in my touch memory (laughs).

Lukas: Password management man. I’m slowly becoming worried about my dependency on my password manager but at the same time there’s very little that I actually need to know off the top of my head, besides my banking login maybe.

Forgetfulness 22153402

Rahul: so rn, i don’t know if you saw but I just open and close the studio with a checkbox that adds a class on the front-end that fires a js function to strip the site of it’s content.

Lukas: Yah I think that’s a real opportunity to do something dramatic with the site. Like the closed implies a lot as far as removing content from the site. I wonder how the site when it’s live can imply that it’s going to be closing.

Rahul: There’s that project that Eric Hu did, I think he was still in grad school, but it was using google earth, live views from wherever it was sunset and wherever it was sunrise.

Lukas: I don’t think I’ve ever seen that.

Rahul: He showed it in this lecture he gave at CCA i think. That was the first thing that came to mind when you said that. I feel like the way we understand the physicality of an object is through the way it changes in relation to time. The first version of the or-maybe site I just stuck a clock on the homepage which I took from dexter-sinister’s site. I thought it was a really interesting way to bring physical time-space to the screen. So opening and closing the studio was the next step of this exploration. Like right now the design is loosely based on the design of the closed signs you find on small businesses.

Lukas: (Link) it changes sun position and weather over the course of the day…

Rahul: That’s really sick.

Lukas: Yah i think time is a very important thing to acknowledge.

Rahul: I had been wanting to do something, because the content is so long on the project pages, implementing progress bars, instead of doing that, because the more I thought about it the more artificial it felt. But maybe there could be some sort of visual timer to indicate how long the studio is open for.

Lukas: maybe it’s the color of the background or opacity.

Rahul: Like maybe the text fades away the last 2 hours or something…

Screen shot 2017 05 27 at 6.18.48 pm

IP Flag by Lukas

Lukas: Yah that could definitely be something that you notice only visit during the day. I wonder if there’s like.. Will and I were talking about implementing cookies on a site. Like there is a fair amount that you can store small images or something like that. And have that as a method to transfer small images from one site to another. But I wonder if that’s like bring the user into a person specific interaction. You could also do it on a day by day effect. Maybe things scale, any css attribute that can change over time. But I like the idea of having the site affected by the time of day.

Rahul: I mentioned this to Lily last time, but as the studio moves forward this idea or repulsion i’ve had to modeling digital experience around physical experience and just because one preceded the other it shouldn’t be the basis for how we construct our digital experience. But simultaneously there a lot of phenoma…

Bailey: Hi, is this your… Oh hi

Lukas: Hey

Rahul: Lukas, this is Bailey

Lukas: Oh I’ve read some of your work

Bailey: Oh haha, hopefully not the bad stuff…

Lukas: Moses Hammer,

Bailey: oh yah, that’s the good one (laughs)

Rahul: I want the web experience to be specific to the web, it shouldn’t become a passive reiteration of what I wish I had, which is a physical studio.

Lukas: So it’s not a skeuomorphic studio but an actual digital studio. I wonder then if there’s even something problematic about having studio hours and whether there’s some sort of other model you can use to restrict access to the site besides day’s of the week.

Rahul: Well one of the things that I’m hoping to implement soon, GrayMatter has a built in private users functionality, and so what I was going to do have a password entry when it’s closed. That way, next time I have a digital studio visit rather than having to open the site earlier just hand over a log in and password.But i totally agree. Because from the jump I already started at a bad place because I wanted a studio but didn’t have the money for it. So in a way it’s doomed itself from the start but I’m optimistic that it can be salvaged.

Lukas: I think even the open and close thing is problematic but maybe it can be an “if this than that” automation. Tracking hours that you are working, tying particular apps to the opening and closing of the site, because both the server as well as your computer acts as the studio space.

Rahul: well I was thinking about the sagmiester walsh livestream, and I think it’s kinda vain to a certain extent, but there is something interesting about that. It reminds me of those sites that you can go to, to watch livestreams of peoples homes.

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Sagmeister & Walsh

Lukas: I don’t think using a web-cam is the right direction.

Bailey: Unless you’re trying to make a lot of money really fast.

Rahul: (Laughs) or-maybe.info is just going to become a cam site.

Lukas: In all seriousness, the reason I like the open and close is that they act as an abstraction, rather than being a 1-1, they are more of an ideal. Because I highly doubt your studio hours are 10am - 10pm everyday.

Rahul: exactly

Lukas: i think even automating it might be a good next step.

Rahul: That was one thing that I went back and forth on a lot.

Lukas: maybe it just sends you alerts, like an email or a text at 6 or 10 “time to close your studio.”

Rahul: That would be really nice.

Lukas: again, it being a model of abstraction.

Rahul: that’s like, did you ever hear about anxiety box? It was this project this developer did. It would basically send him really nasty email that would parallel the intrusive thoughts that he would have, and then he started to reply to them.

Lukas: That’s a really nice, there’s something so silicon valley about that (laughs). Like: “I’m going to externalize these thoughts so i can actually see them and react to them.”

Rahul: Giving the website some sort of agency over the practice. And how my work is scheduled. I like that email idea a lot. I also wanted to start a newsletter for the site. Having a bot@or-maybe.info and then every time a project was generated, everyone one the mailing list gets an email with the name description and thumbnail etc…

Lukas: That’s def a good way to do it. I was going to say make a cron job for if someone requests the site. There’s this nice thing this studio does, at the very bottom they have this request coffee w/ us. Because they have a studio space, every friday they have time set aside for people to come over.

Rahul: Yah karlssonwilker had something similar to that. On their online shop, where you could buy lunch with them.

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Lukas: An equivalent for you would be to have a request for access during non studio hours or something like that.

Rahul: I do like the idea of having an automated “Request access”

Lukas: yah yah…well I think i need to get going soon.

Rahul: most def, I also have to head out now.

Lukas: I’m super flattered that you let me do a studio visit.

Rahul: Nah, it’s the opposite, thanks for taking the time.

Lukas: I’m excited to see how the project develops, let me know if you want to chat again. And this has definitely inspired me to see if maybe not with as much consistency, but if I can host one of these myself in some form.

Rahul: Cool,

Lukas: So you’d def be the first person on my list if I get my act together.

Rahul: (laughs) Alright dude, talk to you soon, peace.

Lukas: Bye.

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